42 replies to this topic

[Dunkey]

Ok, so I stopped in a services for a quick 30 min nap which turned into a 5 hour sleep It was in a work vehicle and it was 12:30 in the morning. It's not the first time I have done this and just ignore the parking "fines" sent to me as i believe being safe and awake on the road is of higher importance. Normally I would be in my own car, however this time I wasn't... So the lovely people send my work a fine for the parking (the kind i would ignore) and my work (well, the company they contract the fleet solutions out to) just pay the fine and pass it on to me.


I asked them

Quote

I don't understand why this unenforcable fine was paid and done so without consulting me first? As there was no need to pay the fine and I did not agree to do so I fail to see why I am responsible for the cost?

So as you can tell they just paid it without asking me at all... the supposed reason for this follows in thier reply....

Quote

XXXX are employed by YYYY to administer any fines or charges incurred by the drivers of management and fleet vehicles. They are instructed to pay all fines to prevent escalation. Your attention is drawn to the "Cost centre/Fleet/Pool vehicles" section, an extract of which is re-produced below:

Drivers are required to:

* Ensure that the vehicle is kept in a safe place
* Be responsible for taking good care of the vehicle. This means that you must keep the vehicle clean and in a good state at all times
* Pay fines or settle penalties assessed against the vehicle or driver
* Collect and return the vehicle within the prescribed parameters.
* Report all accident damage as defined below.
* Check vehicle is roadworthy before use e.g. valid tax disc, lights working, tyre tread >1.6mm, etc.



Please send your remittance as soon as possible. You are welcome to contest the payment charge with the issuing authority.

The key bit up there is "to prevent escalation" now this is a funny one because the fine is the sum of £90 which is £30 more than it would be if they paid it on time and before escalation.

"contravention" on 22nd/08/2011
last notification on 26th/08/2011
date of this letter 03rd/09/2011
paid on 12th/09/2011

and at the bottom... reduced amount if paid by 08th/09/2011





So... Where do I stand and what do i say to them I'm being realistic and thinking in the long run i will have to pay them 60 quid however the system clearly has holes in it which I'm not happy with. The fleet solutions company instantly bounced it back to my companies flet dept to chase me. As far as i can see they have made it hard/impossible to contest becasue they have paid it.


So do i continue to refuse to pay and casue trouble for me in the company. Do I say i will contest it to delay paying and just let it drag on forever until they forget about it. Do i contest it?

Sorry for the long winded post i just wanted to get as much info down as possible.


Cheers

John

[andymc]

Pay it, get the focus off you - then go talk with your fleet team and propose a different way of working with the third-party fleet company.

[Chilli Red]

Flabby is the one who maybe able to tell you where you stand. I get your point and agree, but is it worth the grief.

[Paul_S]

I assume you had to sign to agree those terms at some point so I don't see you have a choice. Like Andy says, perhaps you can speak to them about any (potential!!) future indiscretions though.

[Munky]

[quote name='Husky' date='3 Oct 2011, 17:04' post='292966']
Ok, so I stopped in a services for a quick 30 min nap which turned into a 5 hour sleep



Asleep again!! How much sleep can a man need? Lol

Seriously though (adopted son), pay the fine and move on. Life is far to short, to have all the hassle.
Try a few early nights!
Mum lol

[Chilli Red]

So, the Dog has a Monkey for a mum, Mmmm what a combination. That makes a Donkey

[Munky]

Chilli Red, on 3 Oct 2011, 20:52, said:

So, the Dog has a Monkey for a mum, Mmmm what a combination. That makes a Donkey

You are so quick Sarah......hilarious. Wish I'd thought of that lol

[PaulW]

Assuming they are going to deduct it from your salary (which they should do gross therefore you save the tax on it) they are not allowed to make any deductions without your agreement. Don't know if you've already agreed by signing the fleet agreement if not it's up to you but probably best just to move on.

Chilli Red, on 3 Oct 2011, 20:52, said:

That makes a Donkey

Is it not a Dunkey Dare you to change his login

[Petrolhead]

Isn't that a biscuit?

[PaulW]

Petrolhead, on 3 Oct 2011, 21:17, said:

Isn't that a biscuit?

Welcome to the forum

[Tuatha]

If you signed up to the fleet agreement & that policy was clearly outlined in the agreement somewhere then you are contractually bound to pay.

Pay it then discuss with your employer why their delay cost you an extra £30 then ask your boss if he'll approve an expense claim to claim back the £30 (the companies poor process cost you) or possibly even the whole amount (based on your 'safety first' statement).

[Chilli Red]

PaulW, on 3 Oct 2011, 21:15, said:

Is it not a Dunkey Dare you to change his login

How did that happen

[PaulW]

Chilli Red, on 3 Oct 2011, 21:34, said:

How did that happen

I kinda like it

[Fuku Fuku]

Suits him.

Not heard anyone referred to as a dunkey since I was about 20! (That's a good ten years ago)

[Munky]

So do I

[PaulW]

Although I'm not sure about Munky's Dunkey

[theshrekster]

OMG! She now has her very own pet

[Dunkey]

Oh dear lord!


So...


after seeking some legal advice it appears I'm in the clear. To quote...

Quote

IT IS NOT A FINE. Therefore none of the above-quoted terms apply.
Tell them that they have paid in error, it is not your problem,and they should seek recourse in the civil court. It is a matter between your employer and the lease company.
Unless your employment contract specifically allows deduction of random charges from private companies, it would be illegal for them to deduct from your wages.

[A Pair Of Flabby Wings]

theshrekster, on 3 Oct 2011, 22:31, said:

OMG! She now has her very own pet

Getting back to business though, in short, John - although I might add some more thoughts later on, when I've had a bit more time - I think you could contest it, but the time and hassle in comparison to the cost means it isn't worth it in this instance.

I think you're right that there were some holes in their administration of your fine, but what you should do is get this off your back and then get them to have another look at their paperwork and administration in this respect.

You are right that the fines are not enforceable - in a criminal court, as only public sector bodies, ie councils, can take you to the Magistrates for not paying. Private sector car parking management firms can only sue you in the civil courts, despite their paperwork making it look like a criminal matter. Effectively they are suing you for breach of contract. You've entered and parked in their car park, which usually have myriad notices stating their terms along the lines of "Two hours for free, then £x for x hours", but you've unfortunately breached that by not paying/not paying before your free time expired. The only thing is, if they sue you you could end up with a County Court Judgment against your name, hence me recommending you pay it now seeing as you've admitted to it.

As an aside, seeing as we are all car fans, there have been one or two interesting cases against/involving parking firms over the last year or so. One firm tried to sue someone for about £80 for overstaying in a car park by about an hour, when the usual charge would have been about £1.30. The driver had tried to pay the excess there and then, but had been unable to so he sent them a cheque immediately he got home (ie before they sent out their first demand), yet the bloody-minded parking firm tried to fine him. Their paperwork made it look like a criminal matter, but in the High Court (or it may even have been the Court of Appeal) it was held that these are civil matters and in the cirumstances he was found not liable to pay their fine. There have also been a few cases of firms being taken to court for excessive/inappropriate threats, and they have been fined for making a civil matter appear to be a criminal matter as a result of the wording of their threats.

[A Pair Of Flabby Wings]

Dunkey, on 3 Oct 2011, 22:55, said:

Oh dear lord!


So...


after seeking some legal advice it appears I'm in the clear. To quote...

Quote

IT IS NOT A FINE. Therefore none of the above-quoted terms apply.
Tell them that they have paid in error, it is not your problem,and they should seek recourse in the civil court. It is a matter between your employer and the lease company.
Unless your employment contract specifically allows deduction of random charges from private companies, it would be illegal for them to deduct from your wages

Ah, the deights of vicarious and specific liability in contracts of employment. Oh yes, and deductions too. There's some fun hours in the distant past of my life . . . that I will never get back.

I might have a look at your employment terms, if I was you, because if they've had to worry about this sufficiently to set up procedures for it they may well have amended their employment terms as well . . .