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Tramlining


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#1 Bikeracer1098

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 11:41 PM

Had my 2018 Nismo for 2 weeks and have now covered 950miles.

Last weekend whilst visiting my mum I noticed the car tramlining badly on the roads near my mums house, initially thought it was the cold conditions combined with a sprinkle of salt on the roads.

Driving my mums Mercedes on the same roads was a totally different experience with no signs of tramlining etc.

Back on the motorway the Nismo felt fine.

Also during the past few days been feeling the Car trampling again on certain roads. At times it feels like driving on ice with the sensation of all 4 wheels moving about at times.

Going to get the oil & filter changed at my local Nissan HPC Centre next week once the car has covered 1200miles or so, may also ask them to check the alignment and geometry of the car in case it has left the factory with settings outside tolerance etc

Anyone else experienced something similar on their Nismo?

#2 LESmo

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:33 AM

I think several on here have had 4 wheel alignment done. 

 

I think a number of members also run Michelin Tyres, I did have Continental 6 and Hankook and both gave the car a very different temprement.  The Bridgestones get really grumpy in cold temperatures (I have them on the rear again at the moment).  I liken it to driving with pebbles attached.  In the Summer / warmer it doesn't give the same feeling.    I do know the feeling you are talking about and I have felt it.


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#3 dj370zNismo

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:28 AM

Never experienced any tramlining on my car since I have had it. I had 4 wheel alignment done on my 350Z and must admit I couldn't tell any difference afterwards!


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#4 JohnFK

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:35 AM

The latest tyres seem to be especially sensitive to cold temperatures. I know this example is not on the 370Z but both the standard Dunlops and their Bridgestone equivalents on the GT-R need about 6-8 miles of running before they stop tramlining. Luckily on the GT-R you can monitor the pressures as you drive and that gives a fair indication of when you can start to give it some...


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#5 milanored

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 09:35 AM

The Bridgestones on my z where terrible when cold when I first got the car I thought I had a puncture and kept checking

I switched to Avon on the front on a friends recomendation as not something I would normally pick and what a difference it is about 80% better on cold days

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#6 dj370zNismo

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 10:42 AM

The tyres on my car have plenty of tread but they are perished so maybe that is why I don't get this phenomenon!!  ;)  :D


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#7 Bikeracer1098

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:04 PM

Thanks guys, think the OE Tyres as Dunlop.

Will be replacing with Michelin MPSS or 4S when they required replacing.
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#8 PaulW

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:19 PM

Take it as a compliment, the more grip a car has the more it'll be susceptible to tramlining!! That's why the Merc didn't have a problem.

 

But seriously, the wider the tyre and the more grip it has, the stiffer the sidewall and suspension the better the ability to turn into a corner all have the downside that they encourage tramlining, I read somewhere the better the car is at transmitting the drivers inputs into the road, the more the imperfections in the road are transmitted back into the suspension!!!


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#9 milanored

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:28 PM

Hi Just read this worth a look

 

 

Why is this such an issue nowadays?
 
Tyre pressure, tyre pattern and Geometry owns a share of responsibility but the main culprit is....
 
The tyres aspect ratio
 
Explanation
 
Over the years the tyres aspect ratio has vastly reduced, 45 or 40 is common place and commanded if the car is to handle as promised by the manufacturer.
 
The problem we have is the lack of flexibility in the tyre sidewall and the tyre width. In the past the higher aspect ratio allowed the sidewall to independently deflect the individual sidewalls contact against the contour of the road ruts.
 
The inflexibility of modern low aspect ratio tyres does not allow conical distortion of the tyre sidewall so this energy is aggressively transported to the steering generating the tramlining phenomenon.
 
What to do?
There's no magic fix here but we do have options to belay the effect of tramlining.
 
Tyre pattern
The tyre tread pattern does aggravate tramlining. Historically due to a consistency of a the radial pattern Asymmetrical tyres are the worst, followed by directional then symmetrical. Each level is amplified by a progressively lower aspect ratio.
 
Tyre pressure
Manipulation of the tyre pressure can regulate the rigidity of the tyre sidewall. Small changes will allow pneumatic distortion and offer a powerful tool to belay tramlining. 
"WARNING" increments of one or two psi should be used incrementally!!
 
Geometry
Changes in the Geometry will help although there is much debate and confusion here.
 
Word on the street is to change the camber position, this is incorrect. Camber being the vertical position permits distortion of the tyre sidewall if the deviation exceeds vertical. In effect the camber positions conical effect agitated by the road rut is the very reason why you have tramlining, so manipulation of this will only aggravate the problem.
 
Other thoughts and theory's are the castor position, again this is wrong. The castor is the longitudinal (fore/aft) position of the steer axis and Geometrically unaware of the road ruts. 
 
Our Geometric saviour
Toe is the Geometric longitudinal position of the tyres relative to the cars actual centre line. The dynamic goal is 0 but the forces offered by toe is lateral "ah ha"
 
 
 lateral forces and pneumatic distortion can be belayed by changes in the toe position which is also a lateral force.
 
Small changes can deflect "common" tramlining deviations without compromising tyre wear.... Happy days  <_< 
 
A compilation of all formats can offer resolve for tramlining but needs to be explored in it's varying solutions courtiously and incrimentally to save you time and money. 

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#10 vjordon

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:51 PM

Do we know the recommended PSI for front and rear Bridgestone, .... is it the pressure that is on the sticker inside the drivers door, just me being thick (cannot say dumb blonde !!!!)

 

Vicky xx



#11 John_K

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:54 PM

35 me thinks
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#12 Bikeracer1098

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:11 PM

Take it as a compliment, the more grip a car has the more it'll be susceptible to tramlining!! That's why the Merc didn't have a problem.
 
But seriously, the wider the tyre and the more grip it has, the stiffer the sidewall and suspension the better the ability to turn into a corner all have the downside that they encourage tramlining, I read somewhere the better the car is at transmitting the drivers inputs into the road, the more the imperfections in the road are transmitted back into the suspension!!!


I’ve also got a Porsche 911 turbo which has wider Tyres and far more grip than the Nismo.

On the same road it doesn’t tramline like the Nismo.

#13 Bikeracer1098

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:14 PM

Also my 2018 Nismo has Dunlop Tyres fitted rather than Bridgestone

I will be replacing them with Michelin MPSS or 4S when the times comes for replacement Tyres.

#14 Gav C

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:35 PM

Do we know the recommended PSI for front and rear Bridgestone, .... is it the pressure that is on the sticker inside the drivers door, just me being thick (cannot say dumb blonde !!!!)

 

Vicky xx

That`s the one Vicki, 35 psi  ;)


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#15 LESmo

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:55 PM

Interesting they have swapped to Dunlop.    Is that what the GTRs used? 


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#16 Bikeracer1098

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:29 PM

Dunlop Sport Max GT 600

Think they fit the same Tyres to the Nismo GTR- s***ty run flats !!

#17 vjordon

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:47 PM

That`s the one Vicki, 35 psi  ;)

Thanks Gav ... the next fine day i will get it out of the garage and check .

 

Vicky x



#18 vjordon

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:48 PM

35 me thinks

Thank-you John.

 

Vicky x



#19 ApolloIE

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:04 PM

Dunlop Sport Max GT 600

Think they fit the same Tyres to the Nismo GTR- s***ty run flats !!

 

I had these on my GTR, tramlining was ridiculous!! Michelins are definitely the way to go!!



#20 Bikeracer1098

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:10 PM

I had these on my GTR, tramlining was ridiculous!! Michelins are definitely the way to go!!

I had these on my GTR, tramlining was ridiculous!! Michelins are definitely the way to go!!


Many thanks for the info.

Going to take the car Nissan to get the 4 wheel alignment checked.

If the alignment is spot on will, will contact Nissan Uk to get the Tyres changed to Michelin MPSS or 4S at their cost as the car feels undrivabke/dangerous at times.

Driven a few 370z Nismo and hadn’t felt any of them tramline like my Car, however they had Bridgestone or Michelin MPSS fitted.
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