Nissan A-Z video shows new 400Z design / Nissan Z Proto Launch

[sprint7 93]

I like your thinking. We need to put some pressure on...

 

I wonder how many they'd need to sell in order to justify homologation and shipping costs.

 

Any ideas on how we'd put the pressure on?

[sprint7 93]

Does anyone have any ideas why it can't come to Europe? Surely if they already use the motor over here, and it's being made in RHD for the Japanese market, why is it so difficult to build a few thousand for the UK market? The marketing has already been done so most dealers and Nissan UK surely wouldn't have to even do anything. Or am I being hopelessly naïve???!

 

Over the first 2 years of launching the 370Z, they sold nearly 20,000 in the US. They sold just over 3000 in the whole of Europe. Last year, they sold 2300 in the US, 500ish all over Europe... 199 of which were registered in the UK.

 

They'll be thinking about spreading homologation and shipping costs over the cars sold in the region. These are tiny numbers in car terms and the price they'd have to sell them at here to cover those costs will likely push the price higher than anyone would be willing to pay.

Plus – they cite emissions. Emissions regs are not just per model, they're across all individual vehicles sold by a manufacturer (they can form groups with other manufacturers too). If they sell too many high-emissions cars, this pushes their average emissions over a minimum threshold of 95g/km average across all vehicles sold. That results in fines for every g/km of CO2 per vehicle sold.

 

So, if you're 1g/km over, you get fined €95 per g per car sold per year. Nissan sold just under 400,000 cars across Europe last year, so if they go 1g over, the fine is €38M, per year. Given their current financial troubles, that's the last thing they need.

If they were selling more vehicles AND those vehicles were lower emissions and they brought their average down then they'd have the head-room to sell sports cars in Europe, if enough people would buy them for the costs to allow them to sell at a price point people would buy them at.

 

It's nothing personal, just business 😊

[sprint7 93]

OK I am going to go out left field. They always said it may be a hybrid. What if the model eventually to the UK is EV or Hybrid - that would get over all the emissions. Perhaps the engine out of the new Electric SUV previewed - that was Zed performance if I recall?

It is much more to do with the average CO2 across all the cars they sell than the specifics of the car itself.

 

Manufacturers get fined €95 per 1g/km over a vehicle-sales based average of 95g/km. So, Nissan sold about 400,000 across their range. If the Z pushed their average over the 95g/km average by just 1g/km, they'd get fined 400,000x€95 = €38M.

 

Making it hybrid is one option as that reduces the amount it pushes the average up.

 

However, they'd be better off focusing all their energy on making hybrid and EVs that people buy in Europe. If they sell more vehicles that are low emissions then their average goes down, thus giving them headroom on the limit of a 95g/km average.

[sprint7 93]

I've left some thoughts above on emissions...

 

I've mentioned that and a few other things, including an overlay of where the additional 52mm in length is here – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ewCYR0cfIw

In case anyone is interested.

[Chubbs 3,836]

I completely missed that part.

It is true... kinda – of the 500ish sales in all of Europe last year, 199 were in the UK from what I've been able to find out.

 

 

Same here. When Paul mentioned it at the time, I thought, "Really? Did he say that?", but since then I haven't been able to summon up the energy to sit through the whole sorry launch again (diabolically bad, wasn't it?) - so I'm just believing Paul's ears.

[Chubbs 3,836]

I've left some thoughts above on emissions...

 

I've mentioned that and a few other things, including an overlay of where the additional 52mm in length is here – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ewCYR0cfIw

In case anyone is interested.

 

 

Well done for selecting the only really excellent aspect of the car for your YouTube screenshot (the side view).

[Kano 149]

This is how the front end should have been designed!

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/nissan-400z-rendered-with-370z-s-boomerang-headlight-design-148959.html

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Kano

[Neutreus 2,111]

This is how the front end should have been designed!

 

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/nissan-400z-rendered-with-370z-s-boomerang-headlight-design-148959.html

 

Touche Sir! It's amazing how a little tweak changes the entire appearance of a car. I REALLY like that look

 

Nissan are you listening?

[Chubbs 3,836]

Sorry, but in terms of styling, I think Nissan could have been far more adventurous. At first sight I liked most aspects of it, but having seen it for a few days now, the Z Proto is way too conservative.

 

I quite like the styling of this one though:

 

[Chubbs 3,836]

Nice technical review:

 

[LESmo 8,015]

I have another theory why this new car isn't coming to Europe although I have seen no press reference it. I cannot see Pro Pilot or similar and all new Cars should have a lot of the safety features in the 2021 cars - I cannot see most / if any of them on the new model.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/european-union-lists-safety-features-mandate-2021

 

I am not sure how much of this if anything is required in Japan and the US. So there may be another reason, Modify the existing 370z but not fit any of the Euro requirements. I am not sure why they are going on about the rear tyres. They are the same (exactly) as the Nismo 370z or certainly what I have 285/35 R19 on the rears - so that's not new its not the standard tyre size but has been on the V1 Nismo and I presume the V2 uses the same.

[A Pair Of Flabby Wings 1,952]

I am reminded of what Bob Paisley said, after an MP wrote to the FA recommending that Kevin Keegan and Billy Bremner be banned from football for life after their fisticuffs in the 1974 Charity Shield. 'People who don't know how to run the country are trying to run football, which they know even less about,' he said.

 

In this instance: 'People who don't know how to run countries are trying to run driving and transport, which they know even less about' is what I think.

[LESmo 8,015]

Good Video with Subtitles.

 

So the Proto is a 370z underpins.

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/450407/nissan-z-proto-detailed-look/?fbclid=IwAR2i9gQeMl1ioJQP-MTSyJhQz5k2Rer8Z2NFUHDI2JGT3trvSkdPfLP9oJE

[LESmo 8,015]

http://youtu.be/HEEyiQsbzMg

[JohnFK 4,589]

I've been reading my Nissan 350 Road Test Portfolio book (not just looking at the pictures!) and a couple of comments have stood out for me:

1: "You can liken it to someone ripping the heart out of you body" confided a Nissan official when his company announced in 1996 that it would discontinue marketing the 300ZX in the U.S. "And without a heart, the body cannot survive".
"Those words turned out to be hauntingly prophetic: the ensuing years saw the Japanese carmaker's fortunes plummet to near bankruptcy..."

 

2. When Carlos Ghosn was appointed from Renault to turn Nissan around, the initial plans for a 350Z were already in place but had not been committed to. One of his first acts was to confirm the new model would be produced, and it is common knowledge that the GT-R was commissioned by Ghosn to add to their sportscar presence as well as becoming their showroom flagship.

 

Are we back at the beginning of a cycle again?

[LESmo 8,015]

I didn't know that John - So it was around 7 years gap between the 300 and the 350 then - I still think the only Zed we will see is a Electric one.  Given the power of the Tesla I am not sure we could rule that out,  or like Mustang we see a SUV with the Z logo on it - which if we recall was muted a while back.  

I still cannot see the new model coming to the UK unless like the Skylines its imported if I am honest, but I have been wrong before.  It was a sad day when I finally saw it dropped on the Nissan site - almost like it slipped away.  While I had no plans to buy another - it was always there like a re-assuring thing.  The problem with Nissan was they never gave a reason to upgrade it, no major revisions (even between the Nismos) and too much of a jump in cost between the 370z and the GTR (which didn't exist when the 350z and GTR were around in 2009).  

They seem set on JDM and US markets, but has anyone actually seen a Supra on the road yet?  I have seen a BMW (one) but not a Toyota - there was a fanfare and I expected to see hundreds.  I wonder if the market has dried up on Sportscars at the moment.  

[paul_k 1,296]

Some interesting rumours on the net that the 400z being the last petrol Z is a short term stop gap to be replaced in 2025 by an all electric version perhaps using a modified  Ariya platform.

I hope this is true as Nissan were the BEV trailblazers having had the leaf in production for over 10 years now. But are losing market share to tesla and need to put there stake in the sand on a sports BEV soon. 
 

I think the real worry is that ghosn was a visionary leader. They seem to be run by penny pinching accountants now so who knows what may happen...

[LESmo 8,015]

Nissan are lost again - they think they will sell 30,000 400Zs to the US and they probably will - they will revive the Z over in the states for not that much money certainly in the US States which will allow it. 

In Europe though as far as I can see it doesn't conform with the requirements for new cars - the Juke has 5 Cameras fitted to it for a start.  Auto brake, Detection systems, speed limit recognition, driver alertness etc etc.

How long will the GTR stay in production now do you think?  Is that the next one to be shelved in Europe?

 

[LESmo 8,015]

This Article in Motor1 suggests the GTR will leave the Europe Market as well.

Nissan explains what went wrong, admits its vehicles are 'aged'
Christopher Smith  2 days ago

Too far, too fast.

There's no denying that Nissan's current lineup contains more than a few elderly offerings. The 370Z and GT-R are over a decade old, though being niche performance vehicles, age isn't quite as critical in that genre. SUVs aren't niche, and a nine-year-old Pathfinder isn't doing Nissan any favours. And then we have the Frontier, which is nearly old enough to vote in elections.

This was part of the discussion that recently took place between Nissan Chief Operating Officer Ashwani Gupta and UK's Car magazine. The automaker's woes aren't relegated to US shores, and the report cites Gupta as stating the company tried expanding too fast. That was the game plan of former CEO and escape artist Carlos Ghosn who targeted an eight-percent market share during his tenure and was overseeing the massive expansion. The result of that effort, according to Gupta in Car's report, was Nissan being "landed with aged vehicles, a huge lineup which we could not maintain."

Does that mean a slathering of new Nissan's are on-deck? Not necessarily, though the report does point to electrification taking hold in the coming years. Aside from the new Ariya, Nissan says half of its vehicles sold in Europe will be electric. That also means performance cars like the new Z and GT-R will exit the Euro market where emissions regulations have tightened, but they will continue in the US.

[Paul_S 8,946]

Here are some renders which give some more clues.

 

 

Article here

[Paul_S 8,946]

Take a look at this --> https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-industry-news/this-could-be-the-road-going-version-of-next-gen-nissan-z.html

I like the way you can scroll between the official proto pics, and the Aus Patent office ones

[Chubbs 3,836]

2 hours ago, Paul_S said:

Take a look at this --> https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-industry-news/this-could-be-the-road-going-version-of-next-gen-nissan-z.html

I like the way you can scroll between the official proto pics, and the Aus Patent office ones

Well, the design is certainly no better than the 370 - some might say it's not as stylish. Problem is, it's 400hp and my 370 isn't.

[Dave G 321]

16 hours ago, Chubbs said:

Well, the design is certainly no better than the 370 - some might say it's not as stylish. Problem is, it's 400hp and my 370 isn't.

Twin turbo? 👹

[Chubbs 3,836]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:53 AM, Dave G said:

Twin turbo? 👹

Nahh - can't be bothered!

 

I know this is in Japanese, but it's a chance to see the car again:

From 43:45 onwards you get a good look at the indicators & rear stop light.

 

[Cray Z 205]

Nahh - can't be bothered!
 
I know this is in Japanese, but it's a chance to see the car again:
From 43:45 onwards you get a good look at the indicators & rear stop light.
 

Loved thay little end bit. Still not in love with the 400z styling. Rather than try and make a copy of a once classic, why not make a totally new classic design? It's like doing a cover of a classic song. The singer maybe more youthful, but it doesn't make a better song. Still like the idea of the drivetrain and engine

Oh and thanks for the link to that channel. Some great content on there. Just watches the GTR in the snow, wow!

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